Secret ballot may have broken state law

Chris Hunter / The Bulletin
Members of the Faculty Senate raise their hands in support of voting by secret ballot on the new general education proposal on Tuesday.

The Faculty Senate may have violated the Kansas Open Meetings Act when it voted by secret ballot on Tuesday to change the university’s General Education requirements.

The ballots were destroyed after the 17-10 vote was tallied.

“If the faculty senate is acting as an advisory board, by giving recommendations to an executive, then their actions should be subject to the open meetings law and the open records law,” said Adam Goldstein, an attorney advocate for the Student Press Law Center in Arlington, Va. “If they resort to a secret ballot, and then destroy the ballots, one or both of the following would seem to be true: they have violated the open records law by shredding the ballots, or they have violated the open meetings law by conducting a secret ballot in the first place. In any case, it certainly frustrates the purpose of the open government laws to attempt to circumvent public knowledge of votes, and someone's arbitrary rules of conduct are a poor replacement for the law.”

The senate voted to suspend its own constitution for the duration of the meeting to allow the secret ballot.

Kevin Coulson, associate professor of business administration and education, made a motion for the secret ballot. But Harvey Foyle, professor of instructional design and technology and president of the Faculty Senate, later said he had already been thinking about using a secret ballot.

“I’d been announcing we were going to be doing a secret ballot and then I found out that our constitution does not allow a secret ballot-- that’s what our parliamentarian informed me of,” Foyle said. “And so they, apart from me, they brought up the motion of a secret ballot. I had already planted that, that’s the way I wanted to do it…He [Kevin Coulson] did what he did to make it appropriate.”

The Kansas Open Meetings Act (KOMA) says that all public bodies and subdivisions “shall be open to the public and no binding action by such bodies shall be by secret ballot.”

The Senate voted 24-4 in favor of the secret ballot. The names of the four who voted against were not recorded in the senate minutes.

“We maintain the number of votes, pros, cons, abstentions,” said Amy Sage Webb, associate professor of English and first vice-president of the senate. “We don’t keep a tally of who voted. That’s not the way the senate is working. It’s not against the rules to do it one way or another.”

When asked if the senators believed they were under the jurisdiction of the KOMA and if they had discussed the Act, Webb replied yes.

“Kansas Open Meetings Law is something that we are always aware of by posting our agendas in advance so that people can know what’s on the agenda,” Webb said. “We post our meetings on the web and anybody can come to the senate. We feel that this is the way we are in compliance.”

At the time of the meeting, Gary Holcomb, associate professor of English, expressed concern over a having a secret ballot. Later, Holcomb said in an email “It was just a question about a point of order. I’ll probably ask the president about it. But it’s not an issue.”

Coulson said he did not consider the ballots used during the meeting as secretive.

“It’s not a secret,” Coulson said. “It’s a clearly allowed procedure…The idea came out in Senate Executive Committee. The concern was there was a minority group on campus pressuring the people to vote in the minority group’s interest to the disadvantage of everybody else on campus. To avoid that pressure… I came up with the idea.”

Coulson did not identify the minority groups.

“Any body that operates under a legislative body is usually under Robert’s Rules of Order in addition to the bylaws of their organization,” Coulson said.

Although Robert’s Rules of Order may apply to the senate, so might the Kansas Open Meetings Act said a representative of a state press group.

“They may choose to follow the Robert’s Rules of Order, but those don’t trump the Kansas Open Meetings Act statute,” said Mike Merriam, attorney for the Kansas Press Association.

The Bulletin contacted the Kansas Attorney General’s Office and was referred to the Lyon County prosecutor. John Marcus Goodman, the county prosecutor, said he planned on calling the attorney general’s office on Thursday to request more information.

“As to a Faculty Senate, I cannot find an opinion on point,” said Goodman. “It doesn’t mean it is not subject to it, but it also doesn’t mean it is subject to it either.”

Foyle did not know if the Faculty Senate was governed by KOMA. He did say, however, that all meetings were open by policy.

According to Foyle, the ballots were destroyed. When questioned about whether there was proof of the voting count, Foyle replied that the three people who observed the ballots were his proof. He also did not know if the Faculty Senate was governed by the Kansas Open Records Act.

“Under the rule and regulations of the Kansas Board of Regents which is governed by the State of Kansas, we follow the law and the regulations and the rules,” Foyle said. “Whatever those are, we follow them. If we violated them, we have to follow them.”

Foyle said he would need to ask the university lawyer if the senate was under KOMA. He also stated that the president and vice presidents of the university should also know if the senate was under KOMA.

University Counsel Tracy Greene declined an interview.

Through an assistant, Greene said she would only speak to The Bulletin if both the previous Faculty Senate president and a current member of the senate were spoken to first. It is the general policy of The Bulletin to not negotiate conditions for interviews.

“If we are in violation, which I can’t say we are…we will definitely re-hold the vote that’s to be in compliance,” Foyle said. “If we’re not in violation, then we won’t do anything different. If we are covered by the Open Meetings Act, this is not stated in our constitution, and I will ask our Faculty Senate Executive to draft a bill sometime to amend the constitution so it’s clearly stated there, so there’s no misunderstanding.”

24 Responses to "Secret ballot may have broken state law"


I like how they broke the law. Who knows if the vote will be the same.
Gary Holcomb, Faculty Senator
April 3, 2008 9:13 am
Dear Editor:
Kelsey Ryan's article "Secret Ballot May Have Broken State Law" is misleading about the nature of my comment, and I request the Bulletin clarify this point. By leaving out the fact that Ryan contacted me asking how I "feel about the possibility that the secret vote . . . could be [a violation of] the Kansas Open Meetings Act and thereby illegal," the article gives the impression that I contacted the Bulletin to make a statement. I urge it be made clear that I didn't contact the Bulletin but was contacted, and my response to both the initial and follow-up e-mail messages was that I didn't believe a violation had taken place. My second message said that I was satisfied President Foyle handled the meeting correctly, a comment that did not appear in the article. I reiterate that whether someone believes that the Faculty Senate's use of a secret ballot procedure in this case was some kind of violation, President Foyle acted in my view responsibly. My understanding is that President Foyle was being mindful of the limited amount of time Senate had during a meeting that was compelled to entertain much discussion of a complex issue. I sympathize with those who are critical of the new General Education requirements, but don't believe that making an accusation of this kind is an appropriate course to take. Finally, the article is not clear about who is making the accusation that the secret vote could be construed as a violation of the Kansas Open Meetings Act and therefore illegal. I'm sure that the Bulletin will generate a follow-up article, and request that the author(s) identify the source of this accusation.
Faculty Senate Did NOTHING Wrong!
April 3, 2008 9:23 am
This is the most ridiculous article I have seen in the Bulletin this year. It makes the Faculty Senate look bad and I agree with Dr. Holcomb that a clarifying follow-up article is needed. I was at this meeting and I was on ASG, a secret ballot can be used for things like this. No rules were broken. Stop trying to cause problems and make more waves among people then there already are. Don't start making accusations at the Faculty just because they voted for this General Education bill. Take Dr. Holcomb's advice and correct this very misleading very accusing article.
Attention Great Poster
April 3, 2008 9:26 am
Hey great, How do you know they broke the law? Were you at the meeting? Do you know anything about parlimentary procedures or these laws that are spoken of? Or are you just going by what the Bulletin, unreliable as it may be, tells you, because you're one of those people who believes everything you read. Do some research before you leaves comments like that on an open forum. I'm tired of all the students hating on the facutly. It NEEDS to stop!
It definitely does make the Faculty Senate look bad. However, no one is saying that there was secret collusion and intentional illegality. It seems that the Faculty Senate didn't realize that they fell under the Kansas Open Meetings Act. That's not that big of a deal.

I say good job to the reporters who broke this, because it does seem that secret ballots were illegal in this case, and even the people involved didn't realize it.
Look up the Kansas Open Meetings and Records Acts and you will see the violation.
Sumbitted in Secrecy
April 3, 2008 2:31 pm
I am disappointed to see that Senate Faculty members are so defensive about their procedural difficulties, and are unwilling to have their actions examined. It shows a weakness among the Senate Faculty members in the first place if they are only willing to vote by secret ballot. It is sad that certain members of the Senate Faculty would hide their identities during their vote, and then proceed to comment about how people who claim they did something wrong need to come forward. In regards to Dr. Holcomb's comments, I find it grossly unprofessional to hide one's vote and then come out after the fact to berate those who comment on how the meeting was conducted.

Besides the questions of legality surrounding this vote, it really says something about the members of the Senate Faculty that they care enough about this proposal to NOT publicly stand by their individual decisions. If you're not willing to put yourself on the line, don't cheapen my degree.
I am glad you are mad about this because this seems that if you voted secretly in ASG you would also have to revote on issues. I think the Bulletin should do a story on whether ASG has voted secretly and which bills have been nullified.
As a 2005 alum from ESU holding a degree in History, I find this absolutely appalling. The fact that the ballot was done in such a secretive manner just goes to show how unpopular the general education proposal really is. Also, I really have a hard time believing that they didn't have time to let the matter be discussed in a public forum. They simply just decided to keep anyone out who disagreed with their proposal. Sad.
There is good info about the open meeting law online at http://www.ksag.org/files/shared/KOMA.pdf It has a whole section on how to determine if a group of people are a "public agency" for purposes of the KOMA.

It is not going to be easy to determine if the KOMA applies to this group - which is the main issue. Because if the KOMA does not mandatorily apply, there is no violation of that law.

Normally, just because a group of people work for the government does not mean the group's meetings are mandatorily subject to the KOMA (for example city staff meetings are not open).

If the group IS subject to the KOMA, the way this vote was done is not OK.

But the big unanswered question is whether the KOMA rules mandatorily apply to this group.

Read the outline and see what you think.
They are supported by public funds.
They are easily in violation of this law. The funny thing is that ASG is probably freaking out because when they 'play' government they are probably also violating the law. Whoever doesn't believe this is/was illegal is in a state of denial. As far as you Ms. George, I am assuming it is you since you are on ASG and were at that meeting, remove your mouth from the university's rear and actually represent the students instead of what you think will benefit your agenda.
Public funding alone does not turn an otherwise private gathering/group into a public agency for KOMA purposes - if it did then all the United Way board meetings would be required to be open. Plus, staff meetings of public agencies have never been subject to the KOMA. Public funding is only one of the tests/factors considered when deciding if a particular discussion was/is mandatorily subject to the KOMA.
Does this mean that all Student Senate meetings are subject to teh KOMA also?
The Student Senate is under the KOMA.
is it subject because it CHOOSES to follow those rules, or b/c the law applies to it (and if you say "Yes" the law applies, has someone official - like the AG - said so? or is that just a private opinion of yours?)???
Someone posted this link earlier:

http://www.ksag.org/files/shared/KOMA.pdf

It's pretty explicit and easy to read, and it is pretty obvious that these groups are included under KOMA. Specifically note the following concerning "subordinate groups":

C. Subordinate Groups Subject to the KOMA--All subordinate groups, such as
boards, commissions, authorities, councils, committees, subcommittees are
covered by act if:
1. The subordinate group meets funding test if the parent or controlling body
meets funding test.
2. Appointed by parent body to weigh options, discuss alternatives, present
recommendations or a plan of action.
a. It is the nature of the group, not its designation, which determines
if it is subject to the KOMA.
Also note at the very top:

"The act is interpreted liberally and exceptions narrowly construed to carry out the purpose of the law."
I find it funny that people are like: How dare the Bulletin do this? It is the job of the press to make sure things are not covered up. How do we know that the vote was not made up? I mean, the three counters may have an agenda.
ASG is not violating the law and it would be nice to know specifically how President George is not addressing the student's agenda when the Student Senate approved the proposed General Education changes?
It seems to me very possible that, even though the Student Senate is supposed to represent the students, it may not be acting in the students' best interest. Certainly many students disagree with the new Gen Ed proposal.

And while ASG surely isn't purposefully violating the law...in light of this article, it seems very possible that if they do use secret ballots, they are violating the law unintentionally.
People need to take responsibility
April 4, 2008 6:50 pm
I've spoken with members of ASG- they don't use secret ballots.

I believe the county prosecutor is looking into the possible violation of the law(s).

I hope that people realize this article was not written in opposition to the gen ed changes, it was simply raising an important possibility.

Besides, if the vote does end up staying the same, President Lane has to sign it before it becomes effective.

I think this is part of a wider theme sweeping campus. This campus is too secretive. The Bulletin has done stories on many things that are seeming more and more suspicious. Keep breaking open stories like this. The man is trying to hold you guys down. Don't take his shit.
Well I am not surprised. Of course none of them could be so mature as to own up to their mistake and apologize for being both imperialistic and ignorant of our state's sunshine laws. Our sickening "professors" are trying to cover their fat rumps. And trust me, I use the term "professor" loosely--most of them would be unemployed if ESU wasn't so charitable. Bumbling hacks, they are! Emporia State has been a graveyard of broken down academics for years.

Throw the rascals out--even a community college would be too good for most of them. And don't even get me started on that piss poor example of an attorney that sits and collects dust all day while her only client, ESU, is out breaking laws with reckless abandon. Of course she won't give and interview to the Bulletin--she's as ignorant about the law as the rest! A disgrace!
--TEETO The Mexican Guito